If you’re a creative, you may have been told that your art would never support your life. You may have even suppressed your creative desires in order to go the ‘responsible’ route. Today’s guest did just that!


Dawn Leas is the founder of the Hammock Writer. She is an editor for manuscript publishers, a copywriting expert for entrepreneurs, and a host of periodic writing groups. She followed her love of writing through her masters, out of corporate America, and into her own business.


Tune into this episode to hear:


  • When it might be time to say ‘yes’ to your creativity, even against the odds
  • How to keep improving your creativity even as a busy entrepreneur
  • How to indeed make money off your creativity!
Tune in to episode 80 to hear Dawn Leas, founder of the Hammock Writer, to hear how you can indeed make money off your creativity!
Podcast Episode  

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Transcript of Episode

Leah Gervais: Hey visionaries. Welcome back to the your biggest vision show. I’m your host, Leah, and today we have a very special guests. Do you want to say hi, Dawn? 


Dawn Leas: Hi everyone. How are you doing today? 


Leah Gervais: Good. We’re so excited for you to be here. How are you? 


Dawn Leas: I’m doing wonderful. Thank you. 


Leah Gervais: Great. So Dawn is the founder of a website called the hammock writers. She has an MFA. She is a truly professional and published writer. She is one of my mastermind superstars. She’s an amazing woman and entrepreneur and she’s here to talk to us about her own journey of, you know, leaving the corporate world and following her passion in the arts and specifically writing and poetry. She’s here to talk with us about what it means to start a business around something creative when you have to also then deal with marketing and Facebook ads. I’ve been tech they didn’t really sign up for, and she’s also here to talk to us a little bit about writing for entrepreneurship because we all could become a little bit better of writers. Is there anything else you want to include before we dive in, Dawn? 


Dawn Leas: Um, no, I think that about covers it all. Thank you. 


Leah Gervais: Awesome. My pleasure. So why don’t we go back to the beginning of your writing journey. When did you know you wanted to be a writer and tell us a little bit about your education in writing. 


Dawn Leas: Sure. So I started writing, I was about 10, so I was young and I wrote a really short little, at the time I didn’t know it was called flash fiction, but it was probably flash, flash fiction and I would personify things like pencils and skyscrapers and just tell little stories. Um, I always had my, like I always carried a book around with me. So I’ve been a lifelong reader and writer. And from the age of 10, you know, through high school I wrote, I didn’t write, um, very consistently, but I had a creative writing teacher my senior year in high school who just kind of, um, scared me a lot. Um, in his approach to how he taught, but also kind of just planted the seed for me for later on in terms of where I was going to take my writing, I didn’t write. Um, primarily I’m a poet. 


I did not write poetry consistently until my mid twenties. I’m in my undergrad. I studied communications with a minor in English, so I have a background in advertising and marketing, PR writing. Um, that’s where I went down my, my career path, um, early on. And then just would always write on the side. I would go to open mics. Um, in my twenties, I knew I wanted to go back to graduate school, um, to get an MFA, um, particularly in poetry. Um, but I had small children and other responsibilities. And so when the choice came down to who was going to go to school, it was, you know, clearly they were going to, to school. Um, and my, um, I was going to put my, um, graduate degree on hold. I went back to school in my mid thirties. I was 37 when I finally went back to graduate school. And it was, you know, one of those moments where it happened at the exact right time for me. And it gave me, um, a safe place to kind of learn more about poetry, to take chances with my creative writing. And, um, and really I, I met a community of people who are still, um, you know, 15 years later, 14 years later, uh, just an integral part of my life and of my writing journey who have just supported and encouraged me along the way. 


Leah Gervais: Yeah. What was the eventual push for you to go back? Cause it sounds like at that point it would’ve been easy to talk yourself out of it. 


Dawn Leas: Yeah, I love to write and I loved poetry and because I didn’t study poetry in depth as an undergrad that I was more focused on professional writing, I just knew that I wanted to take a deeper dive and I knew that graduate school would be that place. And it was kind of like happenstance that a local university in my town started a master’s program in writing. And, um, my kids at the time were older, they were in middle school, early high school. And I thought, if I don’t go back right now, um, in a few years I’ll have a college tuition bills of, you know, for my kids. And it was just like now or Oh I don’t know when. So, um, and I was working a pretty demanding full time job and I just said, okay, we’re, I’m going to do this. And I had the support of my family and my friends and um, we lived in a really, um, kind of messy, dirty house for a couple of years cause something had to give and, and um, my cleaning skills where it kind of went to the wayside while I, while I studied. 


Leah Gervais: Sure. So during that time, did you know in your heart that you wanted to give up corporate writing? You wanted to give up marketing and you wanted to write full time? 


Dawn Leas: Um, really through my entire adult life I knew that I have worked kind of very jobs that all have had a little bit of writing in them. Um, I’ve been a copywriter both in house and as a freelance writer. And, um, I worked in an admission office, which is a lot of marketing work too. And um, but I always knew that I wanted to be a teacher. So after I went back for my MFA, I was working at a private school and um, they gave me the opportunity to teach eighth grade English and it was like my dream come true because really my whole life, all I ever wanted to do was be a writer, a teacher, and a mom. So, um, I was a mom and I knew I was a writer. And so when I was given the opportunity to teach, I’m like, well, this is like the trifecta for me. 


And I was so grateful for that. But even in that teaching job, like I would go away on vacation with my family and I would sit on the beach and I would journal. And when I looked back at those journals, I’m saying the same thing over and over again. It’s like, what is the next step? How can I make creative writing? I’m more in the forefront of my professional life. How can I fight that wave of, you can’t make money with creative writing and how can I kind of package the creative writing and the teaching together in a way that would allow me to work from home or work from wherever I wanted. So that little voice has been in my head since my twenties. Um, so it still took me a long time to get to the point where I was able to do that. But it was, it was always there. 


Leah Gervais: I love hearing this because I know so much about you at this point. You’d been in my mastermind for almost, well, like eight months, nine months now. And you’re, you really are living your dream, your lifelong dream. 


Dawn Leas: I am. 


Leah Gervais: You are, you work independently, you work remotely, you teach writing. But creative writing is still at the forefront of it. I’m so, so happy for you and copier than ever. So. Okay, great. So when was the moment when you realize you’re going to start your own business and I, I know you, you had been doing some side things while you were still at your corporate job, but you kind of, you know, jumped in and had the parachute catch you. 


Dawn Leas: I, I kind of did. I, um, from the time I was in graduate school until my late forties, I published two books of poetry. So my creative writing was kind of always on the side. And at that point in my forties, I left teaching and I was working in an administrative position at a local university and it was a great job. I worked for our dynamic boss, but there was still that I just, I want to do something different and I’m getting older and now my kids are grown and out of the house and, um, I can kind of focus on what I want to do. And it was kind of like a coming together of a lot of, um, upheavals in my life. I, um, had been married for most of my adult life and I was, um, separated and getting divorced. And it was in this process of trying to get settled with that, um, decision. 


And, um, moving on from that and how my boss was just so completely supportive of my creative life and have that life decision in the moment of a co, like a very impromptu conversation. He’s like, well, where do you see yourself? And I really just blurted out, uh, quitting and starting at the time I’m like, I want to freelance. Right? I mean, I wasn’t using the word business or entrepreneur and it really, like I did not have a plan. It was just like, this is what I’m going to do. And in that moment, instead of him saying, okay, you know, pack up your things and two weeks, he’s like, well, how, how can we make that work for you? And we kind of walk through a plan and I actually, um, conversation took place in December and then I left in August of 2017. 


So he and I knew for a long period of time. And then, um, you know, when the announcement came out that I was leaving, it was like these doors open. Like somebody knew about a copywriting job that I could do and I did a little bit of, I’m freelancing for a local ad agency. So the more I talked about it and the more I shared, the more opportunities that started to come, um, kind of come around my way. And that’s how I got started. I did kind of just meet, I did not have a business plan or I didn’t have a business name at the time. I just, I was like, I, I was going on instinct, which is what I’ve really done, um, really for the last two years since I left as well. 


Leah Gervais: What did that experience teach you about trust? About how all those things kind of flooded into your lap that you didn’t even know existed? 


Dawn Leas: Yeah. It’s like, it’s really kind of that belief, that belief, right? That uh, you just kinda keep taking each step forward. And even if you don’t know the how, um, you just kind of listened to your and listened to your heart and just keep making those decisions. I think in the last few years, I have kind of switched my mindset to I’m a freelance writer too. I am building a business. I’m building this legacy for myself. Um, and that’s kind of been a slow process, but through things like your mastermind and, and, um, just a lot of reading that I’m doing, it’s just been just this switch that has gone from me and that, that I’m truly grateful for. Because being an entrepreneur is scary as all get out. And those moments that you’re like, what the hell am I doing? And, um, but I wouldn’t trade that and I wouldn’t trade the hiccups or missteps that I’ve done, um, because they’re all part of that, that learning process. 


And when I look back to two years ago to today, um, I might not be where I thought, Oh, here’s the goal I’m going to set, but I’ve just learned so much. So it’s just, you just have to believe and trust. And, and within that belief and trust for me, what I’ve learned is I also have to ask for help, um, because I really was a person. It’s like, I, I’m just going to do this on my own. You know, I’m, I’m going out on my own to be a single person for the first time in my entire tire, adult life. I’m just going to do this on my own. And you can’t, I’m early on. I remember my dad saying to me, nobody does anything totally. Oh alone. And I know we’ve talked about that a lot too. So, um, so it’s just the belief and trust in myself, but also in that there are other people around if I just speak up and ask for help. 


Leah Gervais: Yeah. That was a hard lesson for me too, but I learned it. I remember, I mean, I still am learning it, but I remember when I was in high school and I struggled with chemistry, I just like, it didn’t click for me and my mom, um, you know, kept saying, you get a tutor, you should get a tutor so that you can get your chemistry grade up and that you can learn and, you know, get a better GPA and get into NYU. I really wanted to, you know, and um, I resisted it so much and I just felt like what it meant to be smart or what it meant to go to a school like NYU meant that like you just had it in me or you just had the work ethic and I didn’t think that I should be asking for help. I thought that that showed a lot of weakness. 


And I remember her sitting me down and showing me pictures of people like Hillary Clinton who was, you know, not who she is now, but still like an influential woman. She was like, do you know how many people staff her like or that she has, how many people are watching her daughter? How many people are helping her do this? How many people are managing that for her cooking, for her, like helping her learn things. Do you know how many people she has at her fingertips? And I, I still have a mistake. Think about that. How the most powerful people in the world and the most successful entrepreneurs do way less. Like, not that they do less per say, but you really, you, you can have it all but you can’t do at all. And it’s something that I’ve had to learn as well. So I’m glad that you brought that point up. Um, okay, so you have shifted from freelance writer to business owner, which I have really, really loved. Tell us a little bit more about what your business sells, what you do with your clients, what you do with your customers and what you know, this has turned into and just a few years. 


Dawn Leas: Sure. So one, um, pillar, um, arm of business is I create and lead online writing groups. So, um, and those really, um, I do a two week group and I’m right now I’m running a 12 week group and I provide prompts and then we, um, share the, what we write within a closed on private Facebook group. And those really are just to kind of jumpstart your writing. If you’ve gotten a little rusty or a little way from a writing practice, it’s a really great place to kind of come into and just use the prompts to kind of get the words flowing. I’ve also had people in that group say, I loved the prompts, but um, they’ve kind of taken me over here and I want to like run with this idea and I let them, it’s like as if you were getting words down on the blank page, like have at it and we’re gonna share and I’ll give editing on feedback to you. 


So after the group, if you want to work on, continue to work on the project, you can go ahead and do that. So I love my online writing groups. It’s just I’ve met some really amazing, wonderful women of like all ages from all over. Um, because of those I also do in person writing retreats. Um, and I recently just did one at the beach. And, um, my goal for 2020 is to do a bigger one. Um, a longer one, maybe a five day one and go, I’m a little farther away than a couple of hours from, from where I live. So I’m really excited about those. Um, I also work with people one on one if they are working on a project or they need some accountability in their, their writing process. Um, I work with them that way and that includes creative writers, but it also does include people who are, um, doing social media writing for their own businesses, um, for their websites. 


Um, do audits kind of say, okay, you write it and then I’m going to rewrite it and going to, I’ll explain to you why this is tighter and more concise. It’s always easier to edit somebody else’s work when you can get so deep into your own, even if it is just marketing for your, your website that it’s just so much easier and quicker for somebody else to see. Oh, that, you know, you use the passive voice there, so you need to kind of make it into the active voice and cut down the number of words. So I’m one on one coaching. I do either creative writing or um, within content writing too. So, and, and I love that because for me that still kind of brings in the teaching component and then if somebody has a completed manuscript that needs some editing love, I like jump into that. Whether it’s poetry or prose, it’s just so much fun to read somebody else’s work that they’ve just kind of, I know have sat in front of the computer for hours and hours, sometimes even years and just be able to kind of shit, help them shape it and um, pair it down to the best language it can be before they send it out for publication is just really exciting to me. 


Leah Gervais: I love, I mean I can really only speak on the work you’ve done with entrepreneurs because I’ve seen you do it and I think it’s so valuable for any of you listening out there to really do take your writing seriously. Some of the biggest mistakes I see, and I’m not, I mean I don’t consider myself a bad writer, but it is not my forte. I think that there’s other types of content creation. I’m much better at. Uh, and still I had a huge learning curve then. And the things that I’ve see so many entrepreneurs make mistakes of now is not realizing the type of writing that you need to reach your ideal client. And you really don’t have a gift for that on things like you should not be doing run on sentences. Things should be really concise. Your paragraphs should not be that long. Why can’t you say things in a more concise way? And it’s not anyone’s fault, they’re just trying to be really thoughtful. But with the internet and marketing you have to be crisp and Dawn is exceptional helping people to do that. How have you kept up your own writing practice and stayed, you know, sharp, I guess I should say, while you’re building your business at the same time, has that been a struggle for you? 


Dawn Leas: So for me, especially when I’m writing poetry, um, I am not necessarily somebody who says I’m going to block out two hours and sit down and just work on a poem. Things come to me like in the moment and in particular when I am moving, like I, um, I run and I walk and I hike and I get these ideas, um, for poems. So I usually kind of just write on the fly the draft. Like I’ll be on a run and something will happen and I run on a levy and there’s lots of benches. So I’m like, okay, I’m just going to get to the next bench and I’ll sit down and just write down the draft really quickly. And then I come back and I work on, um, work on it at home. The other thing that has been super helpful to me is I have a community of local writers and one of our friends runs a writing workshop, a weekly write writing workshop when he’s in town. 


And this summer I went to it a couple of times and I, I’m like, ah, this, I am not going to get anything out of like, I don’t know what to end up in the moment. Sitting around a table with other writers. I’ve gotten, um, three solid poem, um, drafts down that are almost to the point where I can send them out, um, for, for publication. So it’s exciting when I’m around other writers and around other creative writers, even doing something like going, um, to support other people when they’re celebrating like their book launches and stuff. Just being around a literary, um, community kind of fuels my, my own writing and then I kind of take that home and work on it with my groups that I do. I do write introductions to the prompts so they’re a little more like micro essays and I just have really had a lot of fun writing those. So that kind of keeps up my creative writing as well. 


Leah Gervais: Do you feel like both for you and for your clients there can be this tension of I have to work on my business. I don’t have time to write or for your clients maybe like I’m really busy because it’s the holidays or our travels or whatever. I don’t have time to write. And what, how big of a difference is to make when you actually make the time to write? And same for them as well. 


Dawn Leas: Yeah. I think for me as a writer, it’s, um, it keeps me in a, in a zone of like sanity, like when there is a lot going on and um, it’s like saying I don’t have time for exercise, you know, if you, you make the time for what is important to you. And, and I used to hear that all the time and I’m like, but you don’t understand like I have two kids and I have this job and you know, but you can find the time you some, and what I’ve learned and really have put into practice recently, which is hard because sometimes you have to say no to the things that you really want to say yes to you, you know? Um, I don’t go to as many events outside my area because it’s just, I, I don’t have time or even like a family dinner. 


I was, you know, working on a deadline and it’s like I can’t go to a family dinner. So, um, in the short term, sometimes you have to say no to the things that you want to say yes to. Because when you make the time, even if it’s 10 or 15 minutes in the morning, if you’re sitting on your lunch hour, when I did work a full time job, I would, I worked on a campus, so I would, I’m in the nice weather, would go out and find, um, a picnic bench on the far quiet part of campus where nobody could find me. And I would sit there and I would write. So it’s, it’s really about finding that time. And when you do, when you see that you’re making that progress, that’s just incentive to keep going. And then when you can say, Oh wow, I’ve written, you know, a whole collection of essays or poems or a whole novel, it’s like, wow, I did this because I made the time to do it. 


Leah Gervais: Right, right. So it sounds like one of the challenges you face is saying no to things setting in the boundaries that you have to do in order to get things done. Building businesses is not for the faint of heart. What else has been challenging for you about your business building? Or what have you learned, I guess? 


Dawn Leas: That it is a process and that it can be, um, a circular one that it’s not just, um, starting at point a and when I get to point B, everything’s going to be set and done and I won’t have to make any adjustments. Uh, and, and I think I had a notion that it was that way, but I think being in the thick of it, um, that’s really like, Oh yeah, this is like, I’m not going to just write one of these things and it’s going to be one and done and then I’m going to, you know, move on to the next thing. It’s really kind of, um, trying different things and then seeing what works. And when you don’t have something that works, it’s like, okay, well how can I flip this and, and how can I make this work? Because being an entrepreneur is great and it gives you the freedom to kind of, uh, make your own schedule and work where you want. But it’s also like, Oh, okay, well, I need to make a living. I have bills to pay. You know, there’s the reality of that. And so I think for me, I’m dealing with the financial ups and downs has been one of my biggest struggles that I continue to kind of still try to work through, um, but not get paralyzed by because, um, that won’t help my business at all either. 


Leah Gervais: Yeah. It’s, I mean, it’s such a good point. I feel like, I remember when I was quitting, you know, doing the transition myself and there was lots of chatter from me and others about not having a stable income, not having, not knowing where your income is coming from and things like that. And you know, it takes a lot of depth to really have to go into the place of yourself and ask these questions about why do we have this attachment to it to a two week paycheck? Why do we have to know where your income is coming from? We really don’t need either of those things. It’s really just a security blanket. And a lot of us have been trained, you know, you worked in the corporate world for sounds like 20 plus years, um, in these habits. And so it’s not weird that people think it’s not okay to have those things and it’s not, no one is being malicious by questioning, not having it. 


But it really does take a lot more of a sense of self that I think I was anticipating to really dive in and, and you know, shine light on those questions and ask myself why am I attached to these things? But the freeing thing is when you realize that you, you know, if you don’t get paid every two weeks, you, it’s gotta be okay. You can find other ways to go about this. You can make money in different ways and it really is an empowering realization, but it’s scary and it’s a place that not a lot of people go. So it can be kind of lonely. 


Dawn Leas: I think it, it can, but I think it’s, it’s changing. Like I talk and connect with more and more entrepreneurs and I think like finding that group that you know, like can really understand because I have extremely supportive family and friends, but they don’t necessarily quite get what I’m doing. And I definitely, I’m at the age where I grew up in a very traditional kind of setting. It’s like you went to school and you got a job and you know, maybe you got married and had a family, but you always had a job and you didn’t leave the current job until you had, you know, another stable job. And I think, um, I give my parents a lot of kudos because, you know, my dad expressed some of that, but then in the end he’s like, just go and do what you want to do. 


Um, you know, I think he’s still a little nervous for me. Um, but I think they also kind of take a step back and know that I have people that I can go to like my mastermind that I can take those kinds of fears to. And instead of to them, um, I did freelance, um, when I was in my twenties for a little bit right out of college. And also I’m in my early to mid thirties. The difference for me at that point was I was married and I, there was a second income to fall back on. So when I was doing this, I think people were looking at me going, what? Like, what are you doing? You know, you’re appealing your life and now you don’t have any stability. But I think, like you said, we’re trained for that stability. And I think when people who we, our loved ones are reacting with their own fear of financial security, scarcity, whatever, and they just want us to be okay. 


So when they, they react in those ways, I tried to remember that’s where they’re coming from. That it’s not something malicious or, Oh, you can’t do this. It’s just, it’s, it’s fear based. And, and I lived a lot of my life in a lot of fear based, um, ideas. And let me tell you, letting those go, um, slowly over the last three or four years, it’s freeing. And, um, I’m not saying I’m never without fear, but the way I react and respond to it is different. It’s like I had this relationship, a healthier relationship with fear then than I ever have. It was definitely dysfunctional and stops me from doing things in the past. 


Leah Gervais: Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. That is, I think one of the best takeaways you can have from a few years of entrepreneurship is just feeling free. That’s what this is all about after all. And if you can feel free from your own fears and your own limitations and other people’s fears and limitations, there’s so much more you can do. What do you think has contributed to their business growth? You letting go of these fears? What are some tricks, tools, things that strategies, what have you done over the last few years that you think it really helped move the needle? 


Dawn Leas: Sure. So there’s, um, there’s not just one thing. Um, I, I tried to really maintain a daily meditation practice, a reading practice. I read a lot of different books by, um, you know, mindset, um, leaders in terms of letting go and fear and limiting beliefs. I journal, I’m, I, I actually journal on my phone. I use the day one app and every morning like I’ll just, um, write some things down, I’ll add a couple of pictures to it and it’s always good for me then to like go back and read the, the, the previous, um, years. And for me any kind of movement, like exercise is a really important component for me. Um, it’s, I learned a long time ago that it’s not just, um, something that I do for my physical well being. It’s for my emotional and spiritual and mental wellbeing. I feel better when I move my body on a consistent basis. So whether it’s going to the gym or running, walking, hiking, um, I even, um, I love to clean and I know people don’t, but that is to me, a movement. And it also usually shakes ideas free for me. And sometimes I even hula-hoop, I have a hula hoop and I’ll hula-hoop watching TV.


Leah Gervais: Okay. Yeah. So, so just lots of self care it sounds like. 


Dawn Leas: A lot of self care and talking to people like actually getting those thoughts and fears out of, you know, we can create such scenarios in such a quick time in our heads that may never become reality. And I think when I talk to people it just gets that out and I don’t talk to everyone widely. I have like a small group of people that I can go to. Um, and also, um, again, doing the self or finding the education that you need to put the pieces in place your mastermind, like joining a mastermind. I was like, I never in a million years would’ve thought I, you know, would’ve done that or been an entrepreneur. But having that mastermind group to go to with those fears and questions has definitely helped my business. 


Leah Gervais: Oh, well thank you for that. It’s been amazing having you and I couldn’t agree more that everything you said is so, so important to have a community. I was very, the first year of my business I’d say I was very resistant to joining anything, hiring anyone. I just was like, entrepreneurship means doing it alone. I don’t know where I got that idea from because now every entrepreneur I like, I read books or watched their interviews. They all say, you know, half have a mentor, like learn from people. Even my dad, one of his, his like he had a list of quotes or he had a few quotes that he wrote down. So he originally said them and he always said, you know, in life you should have three mentors. One is someone who has achieved something in your business path that you want is the person who will shave years off of your life or off of your timeline. Your second mentor should be God or a higher power or the universe, whatever you believe in and your third should be tequila. So I’ve always stuck with that, so I totally agree with you. Okay. The last question I want to ask, hinting a little bit more to back to the work you did. This is an audience of entrepreneurs. What are some tips you have for people that are writing newsletters that are writing social media, that want to market? You know, both from your education, your work with entrepreneurs and your corporate experience, do you have any actionable takeaways people can, can gather? 


Dawn Leas: I think, if you are self editing your work, one of the best things I can recommend is to read it out loud because once you read it out loud, you catch things that you wouldn’t normally catch if you were just kind of reviewing it. Um, I’ve caught typos that way. And, and the other thing with typos, typos will happen and just don’t dwell on them, like try to improve the next time, but don’t be like, Oh my gosh, I sent out a newsletter and you know, it was missing a period or a capital letter. Like just get the words down, review it and then hit send. Um, and the more you write, the easier it will become and the better you’ll get because you’ll start to get into like a natural cadence of your own voice and what, um, message that you’re trying to tell for your brand. So just keep writing and if it is something that you absolutely load, like if you’re like throwing a tantrum like a five-year-old, cause you have to write a newsletter or social media content, just ask somebody for help or hire somebody to do it. 


Leah Gervais: Yeah, just outsource. Do not avoid writing people.


Dawn Leas: No, no. You need to communicate.


Leah Gervais: Yeah. You need to, you need communication, exactly. All right. John, I have three lightning questions for you. Are you ready? Oh, I guess, go ahead. You’re going to go today. What’s your go to when you’re having a bad day? 


Dawn Leas: My go to when I’m having a bad day is music. 


Leah Gervais: That’s one great one. What is the thing you’re most proud of in your entrepreneurial journey so far?


Dawn Leas: That I’m still doing this two years in. 


Leah Gervais: Awesome. Great one. Uh, do you have a go to business podcasts or books that really helps you? 


Dawn Leas: Oh, I love ’em. There’s so many. One of my favorite books, um, and it’s more about creativity than it is about entrepreneurship is Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. It’s really about like showing up for your, um, creative work. So showing up for your work and everything else will flow. Um, I also love, um, Steven Pressfield, The War of Art and Do The Work and Jen Sincero’s books, You are a badass and you are a badass at making money. 


Leah Gervais: Yeah. Great. And where can people find out more about you? 


Dawn Leas: I have a Facebook author page which is just Dawn Leas. I also have, um, I use Instagram on a regular basis and that’s @TheHammockWriter. And I also have a website, TheHammockWriter.com


Leah Gervais: Amazing. And she has a seven day challenge for you in there to jumpstart your writing. So if you want to get back into writing or into writing or you want to improve this for your business, for yourself, whatever it is, go check that out. It’s totally free. Super popular. And she’s great. 


Dawn Leas: Yeah. And I also do have two poetry collections. You can find them on Amazon. 


Leah Gervais: Oh wow. Amazing. Alright, great. Well thank you so much for being here, Dawn. Thank you for your insight, your vulnerability, sharing your stories and your takeaways. This was hugely valuable and we so appreciate everything you’ve had to teach us. 


Dawn Leas: Okay. Thanks so much, Leah. 


Leah Gervais: All right, visionaries. We’ll talk to you soon. Here’s to your biggest vision.

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